POC/SES enduro seri...
 

POC/SES enduro series 2016  

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norcosis
(@norcosis)
Eminent Member

Got to agree with boardinbob on pretty much everything he said. I raced lite last season as i knew i wasnt fit enough to do the full enduro. Best event last year was inners, perfect mix of technical trail and distance. I would have been happy to ride dunkeld in the dry or reasonable wet but after slogging through stages 2 and 3 on saturday i made the decision i wasnt prepared to risk getting broken in return for absolutely no pleasure whatsoever on sunday.

Seems to be a lot of focus on the lites but i heard a few folk from the full enduro voicing a similar opinion.

I dont think the stages should be made easier as it is the national series and its down to the individual to determine whether or not they are capable of riding on the day. This isnt great if you pay and travel then dont compete but lets be honest, there arent enough lites to subsidise alternative sections of trails being dug around the gnarliest bits and there certainly arent enough marshalls to man those sections. Not sure how to encourage more first timers, maybe get them to try the glenlivet round as a qualifier!

I think they do a great job at the SES and i am happy to admit that conditions at dunkeld were too much for me but ill be at the other 5 rounds regardless - for clarity ill be in lite category.

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Posted : 14/03/2016 1:59 pm
Trauty
(@trauty)
Noble Member

I've done every single SES round last year and I think this round was the hardest race so far. I never struggled more then this weekend , but I still raced the whole course and did not complain about it as I feel that pushing my limits is only a good thing. Dunkeld has trails suitable for lite category like the one at Birnam hill and some more but those are kept secret for now - check out Dunkeld Rising in latest MBUK mag) or ask Adam at Proggression bike shop . These might well be included in Dunkeld race in few weeks.

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Posted : 14/03/2016 6:04 pm
POAH
 POAH
(@poah)
Reputable Member

@AndyP wrote:

@glasgowdan wrote:

I'd have managed it, enjoyed it and probably crashed a lot!

Its taking disturbed to a whole new level when crashing a lot is enjoyable.

Regarding the rest of your point, the SES has no long term future if they make it too hard as the 'mincey noobs' pay half the costs. As I mentioned in the thread about XC racing - any format of racing that doesn't have a proper pathway for novices (and for the sake of this discussion lets call a 'novice' a trail centre red grade rider) to progress is fundamentally broken.

you'd think a red trail centre rider would be able to do an enduro? The reason I don't enter them is I don't have the fitness for the climbs lol

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Posted : 14/03/2016 7:02 pm
forkbrayker
(@forkbrayker)
Reputable Member

hmmm, interesting poin there POAH. lets for arguments sake use a trail centre weekend warrior, who only rides trail centres and his one local hack about the woods, as lets be honest this probably makes up 80% of the mtb market in britain. riding/travelling other places is expensive, and you need knowledge and the stiff upper lip to risk a truly shit ride coz the trails you've sought out are in crap condition or just not great and you don't know the right locals. feel free to say different, but i reckon ^^^^^^^^^^that^^^^^^ is the definition of a typical british rider and who are not the top 100 or so weirdos in DH or Enduro racing. I think that 100% , every enduro should be able to cater for them...because if not, then the race series falls flat on its arse due to pissing off the majority and making it inaccessible. however i do believe that 1 or 2 of the stages should be pushing the above average riders technical skills beyond the norm. looking back at last year.....is my "typical" rider going to enjoy the following venues

innerleithen - yes (just) for all but the infamous prospacker stage.... +1
Ae ........... yes no problem + one nicely techy stage ....+1
glenlivet...........yes for all stages.............+1
laggan...........yes for for 3 out of 6 stages....with one being a nightmare for joe average due to inclement weather....0
fort william..........yes for 4, +1 mixed techy stage and no for 1 very techy stage..... stilll i'd give it +1
innerleithen/golfy......2 on the edge for a TC rider, 2 should be within capabilites, and one mixed difficulty.....+1

so 5 venues did the job in my opinion and one (laggan) missed the point a little.

compare that to this years dunkeld...5 stages missed the point entirely. however i must add that the trail condtions did not help, if by some minor miracle they were bone dry, then stage 1's top half was still well past the limit, but bottom half should have been fine, stage 2 top half would have been difficult and bits of the lower very difficult, stage 3 shuold have been an easy one with a few diffiuclt bits on the last section, stage 4....really??!!, can't see a single TC weekend warrior enjoying that, same goes for stage 5

not sure what my overallpoint is, other than last year i think the SES did a good job, and i think this year they will too, but they made a foolish gamble with dunkeld so early on in season.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/03/2016 7:39 pm
AndyP
(@andyp)
Reputable Member

@POAH wrote:

@AndyP wrote:

@glasgowdan wrote:

I'd have managed it, enjoyed it and probably crashed a lot!

Its taking disturbed to a whole new level when crashing a lot is enjoyable.

Regarding the rest of your point, the SES has no long term future if they make it too hard as the 'mincey noobs' pay half the costs. As I mentioned in the thread about XC racing - any format of racing that doesn't have a proper pathway for novices (and for the sake of this discussion lets call a 'novice' a trail centre red grade rider) to progress is fundamentally broken.

you'd think a red trail centre rider would be able to do an enduro? The reason I don't enter them is I don't have the fitness for the climbs lol

Nah, apparently riders at that level should all go race cyclocross cos they are mincer noobs.
More seriously, most venues seem to have around 50% of stages that would be black/orange graded at a trail centre.

However I would agree that somehow riders at that level should be able to participate.

@forkbrayker: Think your first paragraph is spot on, and glad I'm not the only one that thinks these riders should catered for.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/03/2016 7:44 pm
forkbrayker
(@forkbrayker)
Reputable Member

so....... (sorry i'm home alone and bored) the biggest factor here is weather. and it pains me to say it, but if you want to get better at riding your bike then you gotta go out in the crap weather, and straight after the crap weather and in crap conditions, in the snow, in the rain, in the wind, in the ice, in the deep mud - theres not any excuse other than being a wuss...UNLESS you have no desire to be the best rider ever, and you just want to make the most of a nice sunny day, which is perfectly fine (and normal i might add), but don't go expecting your skill level to soar, and maybe don't complain if you turn up at a national race series and the trail condtions have deteriorated so bad that you can't see yourself being able to ride them. YES, it sucks for sure, but... and its already been pointed out that a national level race is a stepping stone for our world class athletes....of which Britain produces an extremely rude amount of considering its tiny size, in both DH and Enduro. unfortunately this is where the balancing act comes in. someone like lewis buchannan or joe barnes needs a completely (read as on another planet) different level of trail to challenge them on, than the bottom 75% of the field need. but the race organisers need both types of people for A) to be finanacially viable and B) to be nationally/internationally recognised.

i'm going out on leftfield limb here, but... you can't turn up to a road race, and A) moan up because you've not ridden 100 miles before in the 30mph wind and rain and too big a climbs for your capability...if you did you've only yourselve to blame and B) you can't complain that you struggled to ride in a chain gang or that the peleton was too aggressive...if you did you have only yourselve to blame....... so....for Enduro......... theres a large part of me that thinks (shoot me down in flames someone, please!!) you can't really turn up and complain because its extremely muddy and too steep......you should have been riding more challenging stuff over the winter...enduro is basically 5 DH races/stages with a zero cost uplift service..... its not a xc race or a cx race or a sportive or a track race..... its 5 technical dh races with a few bits of flat or climbing sprints thrown in to hurt the legs a bit more.

sorry if that offended anyone, its just me throwing a few brainfarts up in the air coz i'm bored, in my defence i'd like to state my heart and soul still believes the race orgnaisers need to cater for 95% of the field, 100% of the time.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/03/2016 8:09 pm
boardinbob
(@boardinbob)
Reputable Member

Katy Winton - "The most mental Enduro stages I've ever ridden"

Rab Wardell - "Another factor I struggled with at the weekend was being overwhelmed with the technicality of the trails. I’m happy to say I wasn’t the only rider having trouble with the tracks, they were brutal."

Trevor Worsey - "Dunkeld was tough for sure, one of the toughest we have seen, was it too hard? Yes probably"

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/03/2016 8:51 pm
boardinbob
(@boardinbob)
Reputable Member

@forkbrayker wrote:

so....... (sorry i'm home alone and bored) the biggest factor here is weather. and it pains me to say it, but if you want to get better at riding your bike then you gotta go out in the crap weather, and straight after the crap weather and in crap conditions, in the snow, in the rain, in the wind, in the ice, in the deep mud - theres not any excuse other than being a wuss...UNLESS you have no desire to be the best rider ever, and you just want to make the most of a nice sunny day, which is perfectly fine (and normal i might add), but don't go expecting your skill level to soar, and maybe don't complain if you turn up at a national race series and the trail condtions have deteriorated so bad that you can't see yourself being able to ride them. YES, it sucks for sure, but... and its already been pointed out that a national level race is a stepping stone for our world class athletes....of which Britain produces an extremely rude amount of considering its tiny size, in both DH and Enduro. unfortunately this is where the balancing act comes in. someone like lewis buchannan or joe barnes needs a completely (read as on another planet) different level of trail to challenge them on, than the bottom 75% of the field need. but the race organisers need both types of people for A) to be finanacially viable and B) to be nationally/internationally recognised.

i'm going out on leftfield limb here, but... you can't turn up to a road race, and A) moan up because you've not ridden 100 miles before in the 30mph wind and rain and too big a climbs for your capability...if you did you've only yourselve to blame and B) you can't complain that you struggled to ride in a chain gang or that the peleton was too aggressive...if you did you have only yourselve to blame....... so....for Enduro......... theres a large part of me that thinks (shoot me down in flames someone, please!!) you can't really turn up and complain because its extremely muddy and too steep......you should have been riding more challenging stuff over the winter...enduro is basically 5 DH races/stages with a zero cost uplift service..... its not a xc race or a cx race or a sportive or a track race..... its 5 technical dh races with a few bits of flat or climbing sprints thrown in to hurt the legs a bit more.

sorry if that offended anyone, its just me throwing a few brainfarts up in the air coz i'm bored, in my defence i'd like to state my heart and soul still believes the race orgnaisers need to cater for 95% of the field, 100% of the time.

I can't think of anything that could prepare you for that weekend. You can't simulate an entire trail that's been ripped to shreds by 300 riders. I've got plenty of experience of crap conditions, and ironically the stages I do best in are the ones that are a total quagmire: last stage at vallelujah and "a trail fairy plan" at last year's EWS are two that jump out where I did noticeably better than my norm

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/03/2016 8:57 pm
Trauty
(@trauty)
Noble Member

@forkbrayker wrote:

so....... (sorry i'm home alone and bored) the biggest factor here is weather. and it pains me to say it, but if you want to get better at riding your bike then you gotta go out in the crap weather, and straight after the crap weather and in crap conditions, in the snow, in the rain, in the wind, in the ice, in the deep mud - theres not any excuse other than being a wuss...UNLESS you have no desire to be the best rider ever, and you just want to make the most of a nice sunny day, which is perfectly fine (and normal i might add), but don't go expecting your skill level to soar, and maybe don't complain if you turn up at a national race series and the trail condtions have deteriorated so bad that you can't see yourself being able to ride them. YES, it sucks for sure, but... and its already been pointed out that a national level race is a stepping stone for our world class athletes....of which Britain produces an extremely rude amount of considering its tiny size, in both DH and Enduro. unfortunately this is where the balancing act comes in. someone like lewis buchannan or joe barnes needs a completely (read as on another planet) different level of trail to challenge them on, than the bottom 75% of the field need. but the race organisers need both types of people for A) to be finanacially viable and B) to be nationally/internationally recognised.

i'm going out on leftfield limb here, but... you can't turn up to a road race, and A) moan up because you've not ridden 100 miles before in the 30mph wind and rain and too big a climbs for your capability...if you did you've only yourselve to blame and B) you can't complain that you struggled to ride in a chain gang or that the peleton was too aggressive...if you did you have only yourselve to blame....... so....for Enduro......... theres a large part of me that thinks (shoot me down in flames someone, please!!) you can't really turn up and complain because its extremely muddy and too steep......you should have been riding more challenging stuff over the winter...enduro is basically 5 DH races/stages with a zero cost uplift service..... its not a xc race or a cx race or a sportive or a track race..... its 5 technical dh races with a few bits of flat or climbing sprints thrown in to hurt the legs a bit more.

sorry if that offended anyone, its just me throwing a few brainfarts up in the air coz i'm bored, in my defence i'd like to state my heart and soul still believes the race orgnaisers need to cater for 95% of the field, 100% of the time.

completely agree! very soon the enduro bikes will have same geometry as a full on dh bike. only difference will be steep seatube and less travel. every year its getting slacker and slacker. orange alpine 64.5 wtf

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Posted : 14/03/2016 9:09 pm
Trauty
(@trauty)
Noble Member

here is excellent report https://medium.com/@Dirt_School/scottish-enduro-series-dunkeld-recap-53b2b415bf16#.avagjfhwj

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Posted : 14/03/2016 9:11 pm
forkbrayker
(@forkbrayker)
Reputable Member

I hear ya boardinbob. And yes the only way to practise riding racefukked trails is to race in those races. But you can try to get out in similar conditions, I've been doing it all winter specifically to better that hole in my skill level. But that's my dumb choice. You can't simulate 300people riding down a glacier all at once in the mega-avalanche, but you can go out and ride some munros in the snow if yer keen enough. Please don't Confuse my devils advocacy with thinking the weekend was easy.... It was anything but...... And I loved it.... But I'm a weirdo, and there's more than enough folk about to agree, but equally there's more than enough folk about completely disagreeing , which is why "THAT" race is causing such mixed feelings.

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Posted : 14/03/2016 9:31 pm
boardinbob
(@boardinbob)
Reputable Member

Yeah it's definitely stirred up some debate. I just hope it hasn't put anyone off racing or Dunkeld.

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Posted : 14/03/2016 9:59 pm
bobeto
(@bobeto)
Active Member

Someone know where else I can check for the results form the race? Nothing yet on SES web page.

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Posted : 15/03/2016 6:57 am
boardinbob
(@boardinbob)
Reputable Member
mark_p
(@mark_p)
Trusted Member

Interesting that there's been a couple of mentions of a "national series". As far as I've ever seen Scottish races (XC, DH and Enduro) are considered to be regional races, that feed into the UK level national series. The way it looks at the moment, the SES will actually have a higher standard of trails than the UKGE (or whatever they're calling it). Seems a bit backwards to me

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Posted : 15/03/2016 5:45 pm
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