POC/SES enduro series 2016  

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boardinbob
(@boardinbob)
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@glasgowdan wrote:

I think folk that complain about it being too hard are simply entering things they shouldn't. Cx events might be more suitable for them.

:clap:

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Posted : 14/03/2016 8:05 am
Obi
 Obi
(@obi)
Estimable Member

@glasgowdan wrote:

I think folk that complain about it being too hard are simply entering things they shouldn't. Cx events might be more suitable for them.

Ha ha, obvious troll is obvious - but not wrong. I like a challenge, I want to be pushed, and if you look at the SES as a series, not every round will be as hard as that.

Agree the enduro light cat shouldn't be too hard though - that's the point of it.
But it's right that at least one round puts people out their comfort zone, otherwise every event will become the enduro equivalent of red/blue trails. The overall series should cater for the top end of the spectrum (not in any way saying that's me), as well as the lower.

What I don't understand is shelling out +£50 for a weekend and not turning up on race day...

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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Posted : 14/03/2016 8:33 am
boardinbob
(@boardinbob)
Reputable Member

@Obi wrote:

@glasgowdan wrote:

What I don't understand is shelling out +£50 for a weekend and not turning up on race day...

I don't care about the money, it wasn't fun, and I could go and ride a ploughed field for free.

Katy Winton, who crashed hard and injured her head so badly she had to pull out, described it as "the most mental Enduro course i have ever ridden".

If the pros are struggling then I'm well out of my depth. I went to the pub instead. Much more fun!

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Posted : 14/03/2016 8:55 am
forkbrayker
(@forkbrayker)
Reputable Member

well, that was a mindF**k of a weekend. yes it was hard, and yes it was beyond the level of most people. and defintely yes NOfuss need to fuss over how they choose the venues. choosing a completely natural location this early on was a true gamble. They were let down by some very weird weather conditions. the previous 2 weeks was surprisingly dry, but frozen nearly everyday, having rode up there about 6 times in past 2 months, i can say the trails that i rode that were in the race were riding sublime, however the thaw midweek, meant that all the water from the superwet winter was suddenly released and trail conditions turned to the equivalent of it having poured it down for that week. a march race should really have been held somehere with more stable trails like fort william. but heyho it was a true test of skills and holding back enough to make it down in one piece.

one OTB crash first stage for me and a few dabs/20 m run on stage 3 were the only bits i screwed up, and then no idea what happened to me on stage 4&5 as conditions were fine there but i dropped some 20 secs on each stage compared to what i was used to doing. bit gutted at 7th in masters definetly not what i wanted to start season with, but only myself to look at as we all had to ride in that same gloopy mess.

the one thing Nofuss need to do is have a word with themselves over the enduro lite category. i imagine a lot of the lite riders pulled out and demanded money back, as the trail condtions meant that there was nothing "lite" about any of the stages. can you imagine your son or daughter asking you to do this new enduro mallarky, you shelling out for the race and watching them have to walk all the stages or worse in the from of injury - maybe i'm doing them a disservice here, but thats how i am imagining it. i don't want to say its a pointless category that does not need to be there - especially in a national race series. But i do think that NOT every round should have the Lite category. It should be confined to maybe 3 of the 6 races whereby they can guarantee fun riding for the lites. Yesterday would have put any new comers off for life i dare say. They need to be introduced to fast flowing trails that reward their fitneess more than their luck and skills. Obviously the skills need to be tested but that can be done by how fast they are willing to corner, not how lttle they can crash in axle deep mud on a 45% gradient.

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Posted : 14/03/2016 9:18 am
AndyP
(@andyp)
Reputable Member

Excellent posts from Obi and forkbrayker, and much closer to what I should have said.

I agree for sure that some venues should be harder than others, and that there IS a place for some DH lite stages, and overall venues that suit more DH orientated riders. In the same way that i've argued in the past that trails that are a bit more 'XC' should also not be out of bounds either.

The tricky part is catering for both ends of the rider spectrum.
We have to remember that SES is our national series, and it needs to be a stepping stone for our elite riders to EWS, and if EWS is getting more gnarly, then SES needs to as well.
On the other hand, full on tech fests, full face helmets and back protectors are not what the average rider is after, and organisers have to bear this in mind.

The 'Lite' category seems like the correct way to go about this, but its not currently implemented in the correct way.
Currently the 'Lite' category is a bit of a tag on, and as per the rules it could be a stage is cut for being physically demanding rather than dangerous/technically demanding.

So, I'd say the following guidelines for 'Lite' should be used:

  • Can the average rider ride the stage safely on a 140mm bike with 2.3 High Rollers?
  • If possible if a stage is removed from 'Lite' an alternate stage should be provided.
  • If a venue has less than 50% of stages that would qualify for 'Lite' status, the venue should be removed from the 'Lite' calendar and clearly labelled as highly technical
  • If more than 1 venue is removed from calendar for above, then a 'Lite' only venue should be added as a replacement
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Posted : 14/03/2016 9:59 am
Obi
 Obi
(@obi)
Estimable Member

@boardinbob wrote:

@Obi wrote:

@glasgowdan wrote:

What I don't understand is shelling out +£50 for a weekend and not turning up on race day...

I don't care about the money, it wasn't fun, and I could go and ride a ploughed field for free.

Katy Winton, who crashed hard and injured her head so badly she had to pull out, described it as "the most mental Enduro course i have ever ridden".

If the pros are struggling then I'm well out of my depth. I went to the pub instead. Much more fun!

Fair enough, it was a flippant comment...not intended as a dig, you certainly weren't alone in not rocking up yesterday, plus I wasn't there so I shouldn't judge.

Katy has one eye on the EWS, for her the SES is effectively competition training for that purpose and she has bigger fish to fry.

For anyone who relies on their health/fitness to maintain their income (self employed etc) then fair enough, if the risk of injury is too much, then it's better to be pragmatic and keep the family fed.

I just meant these events are pretty expensive (to me at least), giving up an entire weekend with the family isn't easy (for me at least) so if I'm in, I generally have the attitude that I'm all in no matter what. That's just me though.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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Posted : 14/03/2016 10:32 am
boardinbob
(@boardinbob)
Reputable Member

@AndyP wrote:

So, I'd say the following guidelines for 'Lite' should be used:

  • Can the average rider ride the stage safely on a 140mm bike with 2.3 High Rollers?
  • If possible if a stage is removed from 'Lite' an alternate stage should be provided.
  • If a venue has less than 50% of stages that would qualify for 'Lite' status, the venue should be removed from the 'Lite' calendar and clearly labelled as highly technical
  • If more than 1 venue is removed from calendar for above, then a 'Lite' only venue should be added as a replacement

Good guidelines but you need to factor weather in too. The trails are more than do-able up there, albeit I have real problems with the 9.8 trail, but apart from that they are ok...in decent weather. 300+ riders panic breaking (and I was the worst) tore what little trail surface there was to absolute shreds. Steep rock with slick mud all over them. Had it been optimum conditions then the problems would have been way less. Obviously you can't have a weather dependent "lite" category so the only alternative is to put the venues in order relative to the likely weather conditions and as Forky said, picking a 100% natural venue at the tail end of one of the wettest winters in living memory, wasn't perhaps the best choice. A venue with a mix of more weatherproof trails and fresh cut sections would have made for a more enjoyable weeked.

On my very best days, I'm an average rider at best, and this weekend was the first time in 20 races where I felt out of my depth. If anyone was dipping their toes in for the first time this weekend, I wouldn't be surprised if their bikes were up for sale on ebay today!

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Posted : 14/03/2016 10:40 am
boardinbob
(@boardinbob)
Reputable Member

@Obi wrote:

I just meant these events are pretty expensive (to me at least), giving up an entire weekend with the family isn't easy (for me at least) so if I'm in, I generally have the attitude that I'm all in no matter what. That's just me though.

Nah, no offence taken. I used to think like that, but after a couple of miserable experiences, I decided if I'm not enjoying it I'll just sack it. I'm generally propping up the bottom end of the results, so I'm under no illusions about my expectations so the only reason I race is for fun, and if it's not fun, I won't bother.

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Posted : 14/03/2016 10:42 am
Dunkeldlocal
(@dunkeldlocal)
Active Member

The Local Dunkeld Enduro is on again on the 30/4/16 this year and is less of a full on tech fest. It will have 5 stages and they are overall drier and quicker running. Hopefully we will be lucky with the weather again as in previous years. If you dropped out the SES you should hopefully get on better as the stages and numbers means there should be much less of a mud fest even if the weather is not so helpful. However it is not an easy course and will test all levels of rider as in previous years.

We are working on a new track again this year, which will be a similar idea to rake and ruin, with a mix of good old fashioned high speed and fun factor. Nothing too steep as we have plently of that already and we like to have a mix, and it should handle damp conditions if they do arise.

Less than 7 weeks now so get entered if you haven't, ask anyone that has done this in the past its always a brilliant day out on the bike, and will show off some of the rest of what Dunkeld has to offer.

http://www.highlandperthshirecycling.co.uk/events/enduro

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Posted : 14/03/2016 10:47 am
boardinbob
(@boardinbob)
Reputable Member

There was obviously quite a lot of damage done to the various trails over the weekend. Do the SES ever organise trail repair days afterwards to put some of it right? I can't remember seeing any in the past. If not, if any of you local guys are doing anything then I'd be happy to get involved and put something back.

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Posted : 14/03/2016 11:11 am
glasgowdan
(@glasgowdan)
Reputable Member

Postby AndyP » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:58 am
Enduro came to popularity by being a format that mimicked how the average rider rides - when the average rider can no longer ride it, it's become DH lite.
And as a side note, I doubt the average MTB rider owns a cx bike, I assume you meant XC?

You don't need a CX bike for CX events.

There are other enduros that less competent people can enter, perth etc. The SES is meant to be the national series, and it should bloody well be hard. If I were the organisers I'd scrap the lite category, they don't seem to get many entries for it anyway.

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Posted : 14/03/2016 11:58 am
boardinbob
(@boardinbob)
Reputable Member

@glasgowdan wrote:

less competent people

:wave:

C'mon Dan, stop pussy footing around. Say what you mean; we're all shit and you're not.

I love insight and critique from people that weren't even there. Always the most valuable.

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Posted : 14/03/2016 12:22 pm
glasgowdan
(@glasgowdan)
Reputable Member

How else can it be worded without the mincey noobs getting upset? 😉 It'd be a shame if they dumbed down the SES, or spent a lot of time planning totally different trails for the tiny amount of people who want an easy lite race.

Course I wasn't there, but I'd have managed it, enjoyed it and probably crashed a lot!

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Posted : 14/03/2016 12:41 pm
POAH
 POAH
(@poah)
Reputable Member

@boardinbob wrote:

@glasgowdan wrote:

less competent people

:wave:

C'mon Dan, stop pussy footing around. Say what you mean; we're all sh*t and you're not.

I love insight and critique from people that weren't even there. Always the most valuable.

how does less competent mean shit? an Enduro should be hard, not a blue run at a trail centre. My son isn't shit, he hasn't learned the skills yet ergo not as competent as me.

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Posted : 14/03/2016 1:02 pm
AndyP
(@andyp)
Reputable Member

@glasgowdan wrote:

I'd have managed it, enjoyed it and probably crashed a lot!

Its taking disturbed to a whole new level when crashing a lot is enjoyable.

Regarding the rest of your point, the SES has no long term future if they make it too hard as the 'mincey noobs' pay half the costs. As I mentioned in the thread about XC racing - any format of racing that doesn't have a proper pathway for novices (and for the sake of this discussion lets call a 'novice' a trail centre red grade rider) to progress is fundamentally broken.

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Posted : 14/03/2016 1:22 pm
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